"How to make a guerilla L2" by Fatemeh Fannizadeh & Melanie Premsyl // ECC#2 - Buenos Aires 2025

[applause] Well, thanks for being here. I know Vitalik is talking now. Uh, it's really an honor to have few of you here and not in the matcha line over there. Um we're going to have a conversation today about we're going to start talking about Gerilla L2s and I think we're going to go there but um I present to you Melanie Premil um French philosopher anarchist who does the honor of joining us here. Um do you want to give a little intro about yourself?

Yeah. Um hi everyone. So I'm a French philosopher. I'm studying anarchi and technology and at the beginning I was more like in the side of you know territory like in the center of the friends for example I don't know if you know tarnac or all that kind of group who are like more violent group and the main problem I uh encounter was like we need to be linked with other people in the world and a lot of anarchist group like very limited and the way we can communicate with more people from America of South America and it's why now we are trying like to create a bridge like with the crypto and everyone who are trying like to to find new way to fight against the lack of privacy the lack of liberty and the villance of the states.

Amazing. Um so basically we met couple of weeks ago in New York. Um we both were attending a trial that was happening in Manhattan where um these two brothers known as the MEV brothers were being prosecuted because they sandwiched some sandwich bots. So I went to the court to watch the trial and I saw this person here uh reading Spinoza in French and I was really curious about what was happening like there was no one in the audience but us two. So I got really curious about what got you as f first and foremost an anarchist and philosopher rather than a technologist to basically come to attend this specific trial but also to basically think about Ethereum's governance and the whole validation system and the trial that was happening in New York.

Uh I think I I was just searching to understand if there is a a way that the United State is trying to control uh Etherum because in Europe uh we are very out of the game with the crypto in the way we are not we don't have a legislation and I'm just I was just shaking. So do you think that the United States is trying to control Ethereum?

Uh I think it's a like big question. I think United State is trying to control everyone. So it's like

Okay. Yeah, that's fair enough. So for those who haven't followed the trial, after like three weeks or four weeks, um it was a mistrial. So the jury couldn't come to a unanimous verdict and decide whether or not these two brothers were guilty of violating the rules of the blockchain or not, which is kind of a positive outcome I think for crypto. Um that a court or a jury doesn't decide like what is right and what is wrong on chain.

Um but okay if we just take a step back about what you said um of anarchist looking into this technology in order to basically bridge between different groups. Yeah. So I think I'm here only for one purpose is like saying like I'm not part of the I'm not a tech girl or I'm not part of the crypto game but what I was watching uh like with another point of view is like blockchain has really disruptive power but is not uh able to reach like other community more territorialize and I think is one of the purpose is to create a colorful whole blockchain like it's why we want to speak about Al2 like how to create new communities with other background like with other imagination and imaginary I mean it's it's really amazing for me to have you [laughter] here at Dev Connect to be honest because you bring this kind of fresh perspective on this community and what we're doing and our events and um yesterday we spent a lot of time hopping from events to events and I I got your feedback something that I'm not equipped anymore to see because we've been dealing with this basically theater for many years. We're all friends so we're like all very kind to each other. But this like critical perspective um is is is amazing.

I think we can benefit from this especially because I mean I got really excited too that I see that anarchist um or maybe more leftist people are actually still interested in our technology although like despite whatever like you know crypto Twitter there are fights I don't maybe it's better you're not aware of this whole like side of of the community but like fights about like what is being you know like about about Ethereum being communist technology like does that sound like true to you? Do you think there's a do you think it's okay to say that Ethereum is a communist technology?

Yeah, I would like to say that I would like to say that but I'm not sure because you know that there's a lot of like like people need to do do money so that the main purpose of it too but I think we we could just use like a net communist like create it like just one of part could be that that kind of dream. I think it's a dream cake that can be like done but we need to have for me I I don't know the community but we need to create tools and design that help people out of the technical like very engineering kind of thinking to understand what is like that reminds me a lot about like dows few years ago I don't know about you all but like I was really excited I was thinking that Dows are like revolutionizing ing the way we organize as groups and communities on chain and like the freedom we have and in the end like all of this just like fell flat like I don't think it manifested at all. It just became like more about like the voting system is not really like democratic. It's all about like making profit. Um this whole kind of idea we had of Dows as a social tool didn't really manifest.

But I think like we talked a lot recently about these tools that blockchain gives us and the fact that how we can imagine blockchain evolving in like 5 10 years and a lot of talks are happening about Ethereum becoming private and I think this is definitely like the the basically the road ahead is the L1 to be a privacy centric L1. Um and also there is the rollup ccentric road map. So how L2's rollups will will become kind of the main users of Ethereum rather than end users and end users will then move to instead of being part of Dows on the L1 being part of various like rollups or L2s. So how can we basically project our imagination into this kind of future of Ethereum in order to build what you said this this like subcommunist anarchist space of freedom. So I'm French.

So this is a big problem like being French we are like a very state nation. So I'm always thinking about pedagogical and like very like up and bottom way. And I'm not saying like like I I think like the L2 like creates the way that everyone can create is like mini blockchain and they don't they have they have they are secure by the layer one. So I would like just like maybe to if people can create a pedagogical and like help to everyone [snorts] like for something that is freely. I think like a lot of group like association but maybe just free could create like their own blockchain and it will be a way like you know the federalism the big main subject of anarchism is federalism.

how people can manage to hate each other maybe but speak with each other. So we need to to have this kind of federalism in the blockchain like everyone is as a layer two with its own value and so we speak with the same infrastructure. Yeah, I really like what you said about basically hating each other but still communicating like not being toxic, you know, despite like our differences. And um the fact that there's like one L1 in in this scenario which would be Ethereum is also like often times said as fascist because we all need to agree with this like one set of rules. So like it's it's like this one kind of system that is equal for everyone and that that like you have to basically kind of like submit to this L1 like there is no or you can like basically move away that's a whole other question but um the if we can like decentralize this into like various kind of tiny roll up L2 ecosystem then we can bring back dissonance and disagreement.

kind of within this like common infrastructure.

Yeah, sure. I think you you are great. Like I think there's like a big responsibility for take people who have a like a true way of thinking. you are the only one nowadays are like trying to do something and something good with problematic but and so you can't just be in your own like imagination imaginary and as you say maybe the problem of fascism like we are only one you have you have like a big responsibility and this not only your using sal or just privacy it's like we are creating the new technological world and we have to choose between if there will be like only tech people and like the other of of is the tech people will be like link with everyone that want more freedom and so we we me five minutes we mentioned a lot uh communism and anarchism and these are like almost like curse words in crypto I feel like you know it's so tainted and like you get instant criticism you know if you're like basically mention this this concept and I and I don't know like maybe I'm wrong but when I joined crypto they were I they were more like hackers and their kiss like the aesthetic was more present the vibe was more it was cool to to be like this so a lot of people identified with that um nowadays I feel like there are a lot still around but maybe like more closeted like is there any closeted anarchist in the room I don't know I I [laughter] think I think they are. So I would say let let's maybe take a step back if you can uh define actually what is communism or anarchism.

Yeah. No, I think uh anarchism is not like not well known in the way it's like very simple. It's just when we we we arrive to have an auto organization. So when like as there is pocket of freedom like pocket of anarchy like in the way like people are just speaking together with friend with association in the work too and they don't need like someone to be the the chief like the like the head to understand and to decide because in the end the humankind the human problem is that people want to have like a chief and like anarchism is just trying we are just trying to fight against this that profound desire to be like controlled by the other and shape as we like do we want really to be free that's a question and how can we manage to do it together

um something you said yesterday too what was very relevant I think um is that everyone leaves anarchy in their lives so like Some people are like, "Oh, anarchy, like we're so far from it. You're just like reactionary, anti-establishment, anti-state." But actually, everyone with whether it's in their family, in their friendship, in some form of relationship are navigating a realm of kind of lawlessness of like anarchy where rules are created through the interpersonal dynamic. Um so everyone has some level of anarchy in their life and I think like starting from there maybe it becomes like more tangible also to talk about it.

Yeah. Yeah. It's why I think like blockchain is truly anarchist like in that way of thinking.

Okay. Amazing. I think this is the perfect perfect sentence maybe to end on. [laughter] Blockchain is anarchist. Um and um also to to wrap it up um on this on this I think what is really important or what I would really love to see um in in in blockchain would be more tooling because I it's hard for me to imagine like anarchist groups or more autonomous groups sovereign groups to come and just be like users of product like there are not necessarily like a market fit in that in that sense like it's very unlikely that they would just adopt a whole like made product rather than like if you give them the raw material to build their own.

So it's more like DIY, build your own tooling, your own L2 rollup, whatever you want to call it. Um I think that would make even like crypto even more aligned with us. Mercy bui. [applause]