Kleros and the Decentralised Justice Movement

Oh [Music] klaris oh that's that's quite a bit so we did some interesting marketing so lots of people who present at this meetup huh some of you of course are building the web 3 ecosystem while we are building decentralized freelancing platform social media platforms and all of these platforms that will replace the evil internet we have now for a social Internet if you want and there's a problem right so some of the smart controls are are complete and they can be read by machines with no problem but one of the fat of contracts is that some of them are incomplete but they require some human intervention because there are proneness with interpretation right so there are disputes in e-commerce social media insurance that require some human input to resolve them right and this is a big problem for the growth of this platforms because nonetheless that 3 to 5 percent of all transactions happening online end up in a dispute and all these platforms that we are building in the decentralized web 3 ecosystem they don't have the true solution mechanism which is embedded so let's imagine Alice who is an entrepreneur from France and she hires Bob who is a developer from no wat Amala to build a website for her and there is a dispute right she's not going to get the Amala to find a lawyer and sue him and so they need some way to conduct this type of transactions and in a way that is secure ok click the wrong button this mouse is too sophisticated for me okay okay so how can Clara's help with this imagine Alice sends the payment to Bob into a smart contract and they both agreed that if there is a dispute this is going to be adjudicated by an arbitrator called Clara's right so these clips tarts and Clara's decide ow that is going to select a number of jurors we're going to analyze the contract and the product that was delivered and it will decide something and in this case decides that Alice wins so the smart contract on which the money was put will reimburse her okay understood for now good so the big question that they might be asking is okay how do you select the jurors okay this woman sub designer from Myanmar for example and she wants to make some extra money on the side after after her job so she wants to be a juror in disputes and kleros and she has to oh man this is a very hard Mouse for me to use so she has to by this token called pinnacle and UFC 20 token anyone knows where the names the name comes from a French no it's great you know the the juror the so the claro system is loosely inspired in how the greek words used to work so they had this token it was a bronze plague that they used for selecting jurors so this is the name in action so this woman is going to send her pin action into a court within Claro's terrace is made of different course it's addressing a different type of dispute and so after lots of people submitted token into Claro's so they're talking into the right to be randomly drawn to adjudicate disputes into the court where you deposited your token so people deposited token to be drawn and tariffs randomly selects like five jurors for adjudicating the dispute and these guys are going to analyze the evidence and they're going to vote who is right about the dispute well good for now good so how do we create the right incentives for this guys to work honestly and who is this guy I'm guessing someone must know him because who know maybe maybe some years it's Thomas Thomas Schelling game theorist Nobel Prize in Economics 2005 because he developed this concept it's called focal points in this book in the 1960s let's say you have to meet someone in London and you don't know so you didn't agree where to meet and you have to go to someplace and to see if the old guy goes to the same place and you meet him where would you go where Piccadilly Circus the rest at what time a midday well when shelling did this type of exercise with his students in New York people used to say okay Grand Central Station noon in the clock so that's a selling point that's the way people coordinate when they don't communicate to each other right and very easy exercise so you have to select one of these squares and if you pick the same one of the majority you get twenty dollars if you don't then you don't get them to others so what which one do you choose nice who else chooses six a right it sounds like a bit different than the others so same exercise with numbers okay so you understood the selling points right so let's say you put a number of jurors see the same evidence and they are isn't device to vote like the majority in the case they see the same website and the same agreement that was made and they need to vote like the others in order to make money so in this case our hypothesis is that these guys are going to vote what is the truth about the dispute okay and the loser pays the arbitration fees for the jurors who voted coherently and the guy remembered the token that was put into the court that token stays locked into the court until the case ends and the guy who voted different from the others loses the token and it's distributed to the others who voted in the same way and this creates in each of the agents the incentive to vote honestly on the dispute you don't believe me okay good so this the way the system is made is for like users who don't vote honestly what do we mean by not voting honestly like okay a bee a bee and uncaring don't look at the evidence so I just bought randomly so since you're going to be incoherent with a majority lots of times you're going to like start loosing your tokens and that creates a financial loss and if you take the time to analyze the evidence and vote honestly then you are more likely to be coherent and then you're going to make money I'm guessing you have lots of questions okay yes now you know what yeah you want to bribe okay I'm going to put that question is turn by and I'm going to show you what we found empirically and then I'm going to answer that question when we have more information but that's a good one yeah so there was an agreement between two parties right and they said in case that this what happens the juror is going to be asked this question right so so the parties made this agreement of you have to do this type of website with these rules it's a simple like document okay and so this was the product that was delivered and so that and then okay there is a disagreement so this sent to the jurors okay contract product who is right okay yeah okay I'm going to answer that when I speak about the appeal system because above it is bribe and see question this one more now and then let's go why why sending one is the one who makes so the attacker and there is the defender why people don't do know how the ORS are going to vote I do so why oh okay okay what if I see how your vote okay yeah so and so there is an appeal city so let's say you win in this round and because people saw that and then you can appeal and worse when the appeal starts so there's going to be another juror another jury will that will have twice as many draws plus one so even if you win this round if your vote is overturning the next round then you lose your stake anyway No so the there is a new jury that's going to be drawn again yeah so you don't control the next jury but I'm going I see that lots of the questions go in the same direction so I'm going to show you what we found let me continue a bit more so this was the theory let's speak about the empirical reality of this and we did the first test was called dodges on trial and basically it was to create a list where people could send images of dodges and so each time you submit an image you had to make a deposit and in the end the jurors had to decide whether the image you submitted was a Dodge or not and if you submitted lots of largest images then you made a small amount of money for each one that was accepted but the big like incentive here if you got to sneak a cut past the jurors right then you got 58 which was point twenty thousand twelve thousand dollars but by then right so this started in July 2018 and it worked beautifully so this is the least images of the that people submitted and that were accepted into the list and these are attempt to sneak cuts into the list like people try really like complicated stuff look at this one okay there were like many submissions and this create a lot of disputes so how does it how it works how you submit an image if no one objects the image it goes to the list but if I think that the image you submitted and it's not a Dodge I can challenge you and send you to trial and then the jury is going to decide okay is this a DOS or not if I win I get your stake if you win you get my deposit okay okay so there were different situations people trying to bribe the jurors by submitting this type of images which didn't work another bribe attempt didn't work and pretty interesting situations to see how users vote when there is ambiguity in the decision let's say you're a juror and you see this image like what would you vote is this a door or not who's who thinks this is a door this is right so this when this was submitted people voted no way I know this is a door but are the rest going to know this is a door and I have so dependent on how I vote and so this was this was rejected okay actually I'm very happy because yesterday I went to the National Gallery and this image is the National Gallery I highly recommend is to just see this okay okay now you're a juror and you get this image so now it says this is a Doge of Venice what who who would vote that this is a door like who you would vote yes who vote yes who would vote no what about you don't know you don't know because you vote it each so one argument why you vote yes because you know it is Dutch who would vote no and give me one argument [Laughter] so this is not so this is not in the spirit of dodge Ness that the exercise was about right that was the earth so there were like a lot of arguments on our telegram group about whether this is or isn't the door I watch is the right answer like this is a human decision if this is a dog or not right because both there are arguments for both situations and what do you think people vote them do you think no yes but there was an appeal and now we're getting into the appeal pile okay yes one the guy who thinks this is unfair he can appeal right and this is how the RPC system works you have the first instance trial and if there's an appeal there are twice as many jurors plus one and then if you appeal a gander twice as 20 plus one and then again twice as many plus one and then again and then again and then if you want to bribe jurors it's going to cost you each time more because you have to bribe more than half the jurors like okay you can bribe two out of three try bribing like five hundred and one out of 1,000 right that's going to be it's more and more expensive for you to to conduct this attack against the system and I think that answers one of the questions no do you cut the exact cost depends on the case and there are different variables but you have to pay for the arbitration fees of the jurors Road so if you keep pushing you're going to lose a lot of money in the end okay that depends on the on the case and the dispute so what people who submit the token to the court I drawn randomly from all of those cuz when we talk it into the court right yeah so they can't communicate with each other there's nothing that prevents me Durrel okay again I write on telegram this is me and but in the end you vote independently it's hard when there is the module they code potentially okay but you have to believe there is nothing to prevent but like you have to believe that it's me who I'm saying I am and you don't know if it's me really right you it's only an address from the blockchain so who knows who is behind that let me go and then I will go back to because many of the question maybe are going to be answer now okay so what do you think happen in this case remember that was a it was the yes dodge warned there was an appeal and what do you think happened in the appeal round yes or no this is yes or no question yes they went through okay and then someone submitted this image and now you have two variables at play first is this a door in the spirit of darkness that you expect this image to be and second was this really a door in Venice or not right so this one was voted yes it was appealed and what happened it was altered no right so and see that this is not very clear-cut because there are doings in both sides is this a door well depends on what do you how do you find a Doge and when this image came to be submitted people were starting to talk about jurisprudence ok the last door we accepted it as a door even if it was not a dog so we should accept this one as a dog - right yeah they can argument the decision to decide but for now it's yes or no we are doing some crypto economics research to have them okay solve problems like okay it's 75% yes 25-person no because lots of disputes happen in that way okay okay and so one day one guy sends an email to us and he says man I submitted this image and it's cut so you all mean 58 because he'd sends us also this image so like I reply yes it could be this but it could also be this right so the pail policy said that if you joke the image you had to submit had to be like clearly a cut for you to have the 58 right so what would yeah so did what did you do we do so we did an escrow trial with the guy we put the 58 into an escrow and say okay let's the jury make the decision so the question for the jury was is this clearly a cut who says this is a clearly a cut this is clearly a cut who says it's not clearly a cut so the majority says no that argument was given by someone to which we replied yeah but how do you know it's from this animal I know that someone put right the animal so people discussed this for a long long time and in the end the result during who needs to make a decision and the decision was no so we want against the guy okay one question now yeah so our guy buying lots of tokens and be attacking the system with 51% attack yeah I tried to do that but so there is an appeal against the this bribery of this type sock puppet and so there is another round and then I have to have more tokens and I have to understand appeal and then I have to have more tokens that keep attacking and in the end when this gets to the final of lots of Appeals I really own like a lot of tokens of the platform and since the pattern was attacked successfully so no one is going to want those tokens so this value is going to like go down a lot of which I have a lot invested in so that's why I should not try to do this attack in the first place and that's why you can't replace this by it because if you do this attack with it so in the end there is lots of more demand for it so this system for three-four defense wouldn't work and this signs of another question yeah yes they are paid after the session ends all of the session at the area so the jurors get paid an arbitration fee that is predefined and then if there is some juror who vote incoherently so the token that this juror staked is lost their heart did they eat that is it's so the loser of the dispute had taken money there and this money is distributed to the jurors who voted coherently the loser pays for the trial okay that's for the money yeah you mean because all of the all of the people who are going to be jurors are going to be like etherium gigs which is I don't know but in the first instance for now this is targeted mostly at script or already crypto people right I'm going to speak a bit more about this but in the end with the yeah why do you think that rally will side to the corner but that's that's an assumption that yeah you don't know like no no but that's why we test this time its type of things and for now we have not found that from everything I've shown you before now I wouldn't maybe you were not fully convinced that the Venetian door would count as a door but you would see the other party perspective right so it's not that this is religiously wrong in no case that happened there were arguments in both sides and this is natural because like human disputes have this interpretation nature and that's not an objective answer so I would agree that this is not working if you would see a cut clearly a cut that was accepted into the list but that didn't happen all of the testing we have done now and we didn't find any type of bias of that sort we may find that in the future and that's something to to solve this is really early-stage technology let me move forward a bit more and then I answer your question ok let me tell you a bit more about how this is use in the real world that says Doris is school so you have like token exchanges and they have to make the decision of which tokens to accept into the platform and now this is a centralized process which some would argue is not very transparent so can we put the vetting process into the hands of the community so we try to do this with the decentralized token curated registry that is basically a procedure for the community will decide which talk is to accept into the list for the exchange based on a number of rules and that is how it works so this woman wants her token into the exchange she submits the token with a deposit and if the token complies with the rules no one challenges the token and it's accepted and she gets back the deposit let's say now she submits this token which doesn't comply with the rules or these guys since it doesn't comply so he challenges a token with another deposit and this goes to trial and a number of jurors are going to okay this was the talk is submitted these were the rules for talking to be accepted what happens okay they say this doesn't comply so the guy gets her deposit and so let me show you a bit of the cases we have like this platform is called Beryl chain and they submitted the token and they saw a number of different rules one of the rules was that the team should have like should be legit team and so some of the some of the people from the community so they read into the white paper so this that the city oh this guy was part of some Oxford blockchain group and they called to Oxford to ask if this guy was part of the Oxford blockchain group and apparently and there was not such thing as a blockchain Oxford Oxford routing group and then they found that the social media profiles of the CTO was not compatible what one would expect from like a important project and then they found some like fake social media profiles so and this was all the community doing the due diligence on the token and this token was rejected right another case was the grid plus case which is a project I really like but there was one of the rules for being accepted into the list is that the code audit had to be done by a neutral third party and the thing is that the people who did the cold audit for grid class was consensus which is the owner of grid plus so someone challenged grid last on the grounds that it doesn't didn't comply with the third party auditing which doesn't say anything about if good+ is or isn't that will project i it's a great project but it just didn't comply with the rules and the community found that and so some people saw that there was a business model here that if you take the time for analyzing the submissions that we do make and you discover those that don't comply with the rules and you challenge them then if you have good grounds on your on your challenge then you keep the deposit of the submitter which in this case was twenty five eight so these guys became professional challengers so they so they challenged the the submission and then they produced a report like a very carefully written PDF report that you would expect from a consulting company or a law firm saying so these are the reasons why we believe that this token should not be accepted into the list and this is like the first centralized law firm so this is still early stage of course and but it has solved quite some cases right and it seems to and it seemed to work for now like in the first iterations we are doing we think that it's reaching the right decisions and let me tell you a bit more about the type of use cases that klaris can come work in basically klaris is made of two parts so this part is the court where the jurors work and solve these pits and this part is where these plots are generated so one of the type of use cases is that token registries is like kind of the door and the tokens trials so there is a liquid here it's sent to Claro's and hello sends back the decision another one is escrow and another one is Oracle decided three main use cases so the court this is a bit like what it looks like this is where jurors stake the token and they and where they vote so this is a taking token I the guys taking token into a court so this is how much you have to stake and etc madama Ezra so escrow use cases we have now let's scroll dot klaris that IO if you want to make a transaction with someone like a contractor you can send the money to an escrow and if there is a dispute it's going to clear us we use this for our contractors right we paid it through this this is an app we created for people to create the dispute they want and they are going to go to clear arbitration linghua is a escrow type of app especially focus for translation if you want to hire translator and you don't know if this guy is going to do a good job or not you can do it through this this is not released yet it's going to be in a while so token registry we already discussed this one the node you need swap so we forked unit swap and created what we called units of Linxia is exactly like uni swap but it only has the tokens that were accepted into a token registry right so it pulls the toxa from there so but use it because it's like unit swap and there is another batch it's called due to check so for community to bet tokens are going to Dutch exchange we are developing a dub where you can create your own token registry so I discussed the token case but this kind used to curate social media contents this can be used to curate ecommerce listings whatever soon you will be able to do it yourself with this token registry Vitalik in his and that was ended in New York said way why don't you use clear off to create a registry of humans right because you've got you need to decide it some user is a human or not this can prevent evil attacks etc so we started a project called proof of humanity it's a list of curator humans and if you are interested in this kind kind of use cases then there is this very cool telegram group where there is lots of people discussing this kind I think my cottage in the group right yeah my cousin so join the group if you like the kind of identity stuff and then I'm going to do this fast because they're going to kick me out of the place you can use kleros for solving the kind of Oracle disputes this thing happened or didn't happen we developed that with real issue where you can use Paris as arbitrator for oracle type of disputes so the vision of paris is to create this Dao where all of the decentralized ecosystem doubt the e-commerce social media sharing economy whatever send their disputes and Clara sends back the decision to those disputes right it's kind of aggregator of dispute resolution so the ecosystem is starting now they have like not many dubs connected but it started to grow and this is our vision of ok all of these projects sending this dispute to kleros so yeah that's what we will go about the team so two founders myself from Argentina and claim offer from France the companies in France formally but the team is everywhere like we have to do Scotland Brazil Canada what you see that floods so if you want to get involved in what we are doing so join the community of course you feel free to take a picture of this if you use telegram so if you want to learn more a very good way to start is by reading our book I don't know where it is oh let me just I'm going to show you the book instead of shilling you are token so this is the book this explains our vision and what we are doing and etc all the questions you asked about crypt economics and stuff it's answer here I just have one in physical format but the rest is you can download it and again signed it digitally with my so there's the book if you want to be a juror this is the place for you to like on board into the juror platform yep take these pictures and of course I'm going to show you a token because we are the next now if you want to be a juror you will need some tokens so you can buy them in your shop and you can buy them in the sale that is going on now because we did a first sale in 2018 and now we are doing a second round because we do this responsibly in different rounds as we can show the community that we like fulfill what we said we would do and if you are more inclined to academic research we have a fellowship program where you can do research about different things involving flipped economics how this interacts with the law of arbitration and different questions so this is a from people who are in the fellowship program and this too so we're opening the next cohort next week probably or in a couple of weeks and of course if you are building adapt and you need this patrol solution so talk to me and let's connect your dab into Claro's and so you have that problem solved you need to worry about that anymore and finally what we are doing and I promise this is the last thing so we are seeing the evolution of different so the technology affecting different areas we already know that Wikipedia triumphed and we know that Bitcoin so this is the I'm not going to preach to the core so bitcoin is triumphing is winning this in the money world become the money of the future and claryce we think is going to become a very important part of the dispute resolution ecosystem of the future of course you may have lots of doubts yeah the civil attack and the bribing and how do you know that people are not going to collude into like looking for the simple answer people used to say that about Wikipedia about Wikipedia in the beginning this they say that bitcoin is not going to become money because it's yeah how you can you trust the centralized computer network for an anonymous people people of course are skeptical about what we are doing for now like what we tested is working and we are open to change it what doesn't work so thank you very much for your time and thank you also for the - I have time for questions so one one question yeah because the token that you need to use to become a juror so the revenue of the company comes from the use of the token if Claro's becomes global a very important platform for this neutral solution and it starts to be used by eBay or informed so that's going to be creative revenue yeah Oh to have this used in like so yeah so for now like this the goal has been to develop the platform test that it works and now that it's tested and we think that at least in a number of use cases it works the the go now it's adoption of course that yeah and we would love to so this is what the question is what is the lowest friction point so this is the lowest friction point is in type of disputes were like the token exchange kind of because people this is already crypto and people are more open to this type of yeah exactly in the long run of course we are also developing infrastructure for people to build companies on top of players at what we call players layer - like you want to create a company that sells a service to eBay of the food resolution if I pace you in like Fiat and you handle all the process with Aeros you handle juror you handle this some etc and then you charge eBay X amount of money per dispute and you keep kind of coinbase of the to do solution if you want that's the layer two possible but it could be done in the future that so this is remember this is a centralized platform the community could totally decide to implement phase four disparate that's not only our we have been suggested this and the community could vote on this of course there's a little project I think that yeah yes thank you [Applause]