"Why Crypto UX Is Broken and How We Can Fix It", - Alisher UX designer for Logos, KeyCard & Logos

[Music] Hi, I'm Alifhat. I'm UX designer in Instas in Keyart and contributing to Logos. [Music]

Hi Lar, thanks for coming.

Hey.

Hi guys. Um, so for people who don't know you, can you tell a bit about yourself? Like what do you do? Uh my name is Alifar and I'm a UX designer in web three uh focused on privacy on self-hosted tool on decentralization and I contribute mostly to status and key card and also I was ready to take something that I see I can be helpful in in logs.

Oh nice it's a lot of projects you are doing. Can you expand a bit more on the projects you work with? So uh let's start with status. uh status is privacy first messenger peer-to-peer and uh uh end to end encrypted and it's it's very important that we have a tool like this and we see that this tool is very popular in countries where where where uh refuge is oppressed and when there is when when people uh search search for tools that are not affiliated with exact countries and with exact governments and uh for me building this tool means uh providing an option for people who who want privacy. Wow, that sounds great.

Uh but it's really nice actually. I think it's the first time we talk to UX person because mostly we have people from tech side of course and maybe business product strategy side and from UX side I think it's something that we missed for all this interviews that we've been making. So it's really nice to hear your perspective on things because like what my personal opinion is is that and web 3 UX is so overlooked. it's so missing like what's your take like why why is that?

Uh yeah I understand why it felt like that. Yeah.

And uh for me uh uh uh this kind of idea comes from from the fact that if you if you want to do something aligned with with values and really self-hosted and really decentralized uh you uh you'll you'll need to to make it more complex. So because uh because you can't get away without a kiss and without explaining what is it and without longer on boarding and all the centralized tools they they can make it simple because the they they in control of all the data and then can provide better experiences and uh for me uh role of UX designer here is not to make things like simpler but to communicate Why it's important to understand all these concepts?

Mhm. And um what is the difference of your X in privacy tools and software versus like non-privacy? Is there is there any difference actually?

Yeah, a lot of differences. A lot of differences. Uh when you use web tools, uh you just check the box and go further. uh uh people who not uh focused on privacy of their data then even don't think what they check what kind of metadata they leak uh what kind of data will be available to creators uh of the tool in web three uh it's very important to inform user on any uh on anything that that that can be leaked that can be visible and it it it creates additional user flows additional additional pages and additional information load on the

Mhm. Okay. So there is a difference u like how do you think is it um like for someone who wants to be a UX designer in web 3 is it an easy transition from web two to web three and how do you do that? uh it's uh it's uh this transition requires uh exploring and I'm mostly important using those tools and I made different transitions in my life. I I work in big group web two companies and uh and also I work in in genetics

and and for me it felt like a transition to social media tool to genetic instruments for science. uh it's it's it's very very complex thing and it took about six months of uh researching using speaking with people it's about it's about motivation so I I value when people uh transition to web three not because they think that there will be like more money but when they they they feel like this is something that world needs

and it's somehow connected to to their history to their background and then it's easy because when you use those tools when you explore them and I use them every day uh you understand uh uh what what can be better

and uh what do you think is the way to become really really good at UX? So imagine like someone who is watching this video is just beginning their way in your ex and this person wants to be like a pro like what are the steps and what are the maybe life hacks like what what your personal learnings from your journey uh first step I'll say it's learning the concepts learning the difference uh practice a lot and uh for me the uh most inspiring way uh to to be better in what I do is talk with people, talk with people that use it and talk with people that develop it. So not be in silo and and just go outside uh ask ask people what they like, what they don't, not only in your product but overall talk with people is the best way to make things better. 100% agree and that's not only for UX people actually that's for actually it's very relevant to developers because what's what I see from like mentoring startups in web two and web three space is that often when it's made by tech people uh they don't talk much to their users but then there is a question like how do you actually speak to them like what what you do and what you don't because you need to approach like to do a castdev it's like a special science. So what's your uh tricks on how to do that to actually get like the pain of of people of users?

Yeah, I will. Um, one good experience I had is with testing Kart Kart shop. Uh, we we had offsite in in Croatia and for the year we worked mostly like disconnected from users because prototypes were very early and we were not ready. uh and while we uh building that uh we had an assumptions this may work this may not work because we need to deliver something that that user can experience can use like from end to end sign transaction uh but we were not sure about many things and then I I call it like field and field exploration field testing we made list of questions list of cases we've got some volunteers for this offsider there there were around uh 200 people uh we announced that and and like every day there was uh multiple interviews and we documented everything all insights then combined them and then uh uh I think it's only very also very important part uh we publish changes and we we publicly so uh we built in public and everything we do okay we've g this kind of feedback uh We tried this feature and this is what we changed because of your feedback. Let let us know what you think about it.

Uh uh we have now we have beta testers and they can update to latest firmware and and give us their feedback. So build building in public uh do short iteration and talk about what you changed and why.

Okay. Um so there is also one thing like when you talk to people sometimes they are they like tend to lie and like say oh yeah it's the best product I will use it blah blah blah how you like how you don't fall in the speed of like over liking you by users like are there any tricks like how do you know if they really tell like how they feel not just like compliment Yeah. Uh it it's about observing uh experience not feedback.

Right.

So when when when you see people struggle, you see people struggle no matter what they what they will say after.

Okay. Fair. Fair. And uh you have this key card you write.

Can you show and tell a bit about it?

Yeah. So,

uh, this is this this is a key card.

So,

show it there.

Yeah, it's it's it's a card- shaped hardware wallet. Uh, um, very secure

because private key never leaves a secure chip.

Mhm. Is it like SIM card chip? I know it's like bank card chip.

Yeah, it's basically uh mini computer uh running Java uplet and powered by uh card reader or by or by key card. Oh, but is it like is it the same like bank card or it's like more complicated ones?

Uh I think those chips are pretty similar.

So this kind of chips used in in government ids, they used in credit cards.

Uh there are some difference I I believe but but basically uh technology is is same. Uh and uh everything we do is open source. And uh this key card um uh so it's easy to to use it for different purposes not only as hardware wallet but now we exploring the way to use it as a decentralized ID card.

Oh wow. And what about this beautiful thing?

Yeah. So this is

Can you show it to camera as well?

Yeah. So this is uh the latest prototype. Basically I assembled it a couple days uh before Cyber Punk. Is it a camera here?

Yeah. Wow. Wow. I think I had s such camera at my Simmons C62 like 20 years ago. It reminds me of some old tech.

Super cool one. And also reminds me of teenage engineering products.

Yeah. Uh so this is stateless interface for the key. Uh it stores nothing. It uh it means that it can be used with multiple key cards with multiple people and secure chip is here and uh this uh thing allows you to sign transaction uh uh vr.

So so so how it works you you input it.

Yeah. and enter your pin code.

Uh then you can use words like Rebby or MetaMask uh or unisat and they will show you transaction in in form of QR.

You scan this QR with this camera and you can review all details on screen

and then sign it here.

Uhhuh.

And show a signature QR back back to the camera.

Oh. Oh. and and and this way uh uh it's possible to sign transaction messages uh uh login with Ethereum to different apps.

Wow, that looks super cool. I mean just like how it looks like and it's really nice to touch as well. And um like if you compare yourself with I don't know Ledger Teslas or whatever like uh what are the main differences like?

Yep. Yeah, there are a lot of differences. Uh for me one of the uh main important difference that uh it's modeler.

Mhm.

And so some some ledger models we know that when battery dies you can't replace it and and and then you need another ledger and you need to know where your recovery phrase is. So it can like pain and a lot of hustle. And here we use uh we we our important goal is to make it as simple as possible. So this battery is basically uh standard battery that used in phones like available uh on shell.

Hey,

so anyone can buy it and replace it if battery dies.

Yeah. So one battery is like for one year of use.

Oh, I think it's it it will run for for for five years for 10 because you're not using like it's not powered.

No, I mean with one charge it's like for a lot of use, right? Because it doesn't consume much. Yes, it's

Yeah. I I about year but but uh around like

one month it's

like kindle

it keeps forever kind of

yeah and and thanks for saying uh about about design because also for me at designer it's important that we hear our users and initially we thought about making it black and previous prototype black

and after some rounds of research and talking with people uh they said that they would like to have uh trans

also uh it's it's very easy to tear it apart and print your own

and we have all since all we do is open source uh all files for 3 3D printing is available on

and we already uh see some our beta testers uh printing different part different game

that's cool

yeah I like the transparent version much more than black one and it's just I know it looks So awesome piece. So and at what stage is uh this product now like is it available for purchase or you're still developing it?

It's it's available for pre-order

and uh uh I think it's uh completely ready. So we have all s all parts all molders uh we tested everything website uh is ready because you can do something on the website like verify uh authenticity of this tool also uh through scanning QR. So we have all guides u all all um all documentation that can be uh useful uh to understand how it works and build things around it. Mhm.

So I'll say only one thing that left is chip.

Mhm.

Okay. And uh the thing with the cards like one card is like one uh uh one one key, right?

Yeah. One private key. And it's also a very important difference between ledger because with with a ledger you can have only one pair per ledger. And and here it's uh one you can have like five cards, three cards and and one key card key card show and uh it you will have the same freedom as uh we have notice. And what's the price for pre-order now?

U we we have some campaigns and uh for now I I even checked like last time I think it's around 100 for the key card shell and two two cards which is way way more cheaper. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And it looks cool. I mean, ledger for me it's like super boring. I could have it much more interesting

actually. Yeah.

Okay. I think this is how uh cypher cipher plan hardware what it should look like.

Yeah. And for me this is like pure UX thing because like I love it just because it looks cool and because the functionality is more or less the same, right? Okay. Yeah. You can deassemble it.

you have multiple keys, but I just like the way it looks like. So, it's just a cool piece of equipment I would like to have because, you know, I can put it on a shelf and then see it and like have less emotions around that. That's about the importance of UX. Um, what do you think is the are the like top uh UX projects in web 3 space that you like? It's it's it's hard to uh like to to say what is UX project.

No, no, no. I mean a project with good UX that you like and and that is you think that is like looks good and it's also very functional.

Yeah. Uh for me one of the project I use every day is any type.

Yeah, I know that.

Yeah. Uh it's uh uh I believe that it's very important to use tools that not only have good UIX but also aligned with with with your own values.

Uhhuh.

And uh any type basically saved me from the notion

uh and the uh the way it works is in some in some cases is very similar to notion but sometimes it's even better.

Wow. And if uh if uh web three project can do something better than than then then web two can deliver better experience. So it's it's in my top list.

Oh wow. I don't use I mean I know that it exists but I don't use it that much. Like what do you use it for any type?

Uh I use it for uh quick collaborations to for sharing documents uh for making notes to to publish uh PDF in in decentralized way.

Mhm. because you can just drop any PDF in in any type and click publish and there will be a link

and it's all it's all like peer-to-peer. So uh if you if your um PC if your laptop is online anyone with the sh will be able to

Okay, that's convenient. Okay, two more like cool projects with cool UX and web free space.

Okay. Uh I'll say uh Rami.

Mhm.

Uh uh uh for me it's it's it's the word that have all details anyone interested in in in privacy will need uh to understand uh what they sign, why they sign. Uh they have uh a lot of details on on transactions uh that like very very important.

Okay. And the last one.

H okay. So what I use every day every day.

You don't have to use it. Just think that it's a good reference for people to understand what is good, what is bad.

I I really like uh circles made by made by noises

and and the app uh uh that built on a metric app.

Mhm.

Yeah. And I like I I like uh both idea of that anyone can make their own money and I like uh how application made it made it possible like in couple tabs and m your coins.

So it's like less about design. It's more about the ease that just few clicks. That's the essence of good UX, right? design they do a lot uh for explaining and delivering uh uh the message about why how it works because because it's it's very complex uh it's very comp complex concept but they made it uh very easy to to understand

okay and now like uh two three worst UX projects that uh needs this refurbishment Oh yeah, I think I will I will I I will I will not saying about this kind of projects uh just because uh as as you say like for me personally u I I believe that uh this kind of projects they're available to someone who use it and they know why they use it and project I mentioned. I I I I'm I'm saying they they have good UIX because I use it like every day and it's it's not a struggle for me. It's it's a good experience. But even some very very like complex and uh entangled uh projects if they exist they useful possibly.

Okay. Um let's go for it like the privacy angle like what is a good private UX like

uh

yeah uh for me it's about uh give give uh information about what can be exposed and what can be leaked uh with with action. Hello. Yeah, fair. Um, anything else or that's it?

Uh, if we talk about privacy, it's it's about it because that the main flaw of uh many web to projects that you don't know what happens uh with your data when you log in, when you do something, when you

press any button, you you have no idea where where it will go. True. Okay. um your hot take on cyher punk like what do you think about this cyher punk revival and what do you think it is like to be a cypher punk now?

Yeah. Uh I have yeah I have experience in work working in in big tech companies uh like Melu and Yandex and uh I saw I saw how privacy uh treated there and uh and I saw how bad it can be. Uh and uh also I saw how com how companies that not built initially like for privacy and initially for security uh can then be used uh in in bad ways can can be propaganda machines uh can be oppressed influenced controlled by governments and uh I didn't know word cipher punk I think and I cyber punk but I I I I I didn't know anything about cypher punk but when I uh searched for my next projects I searched for something that don't have uh this problems that those big web two companies have and then I I found web three space uh not not through crypto but through uh uh encryption. So okay and and and for me it's very important that what we do in logos right now is based on this like core cypher punk values. So we we building tools that can be shut down by governments that uh peer-to-peer uh encrypted by default uh that uh very important uh for me permissionless that can be used by anyone uh and uh allow self-host tools.

So, so don't don't require any uh central servers and then I learned that it's cipher p. So this this this

okay

yeah yeah yeah so so I saw that it's it's very important parts of the bigger picture

and uh okay uh for me I was okay I want to build tools like this I want to contribute my power my energy my knowledge into tools like this because yeah it's I I will say somehow I try to counterbalance uh the impact I deal on web to tools and help help them be better and help to get more users and and now I feel like what I do must be aligned with sector one. So that's why that's why I am here.

Yeah, it sounds like beautiful mission. So unfortunately we have to round up because we are short on time. Sheriff, thanks for coming. Thanks for watching. Ciao.

[Music]