Panel discussion: RWAs and Stablecoins

All right, guys, good evening, everyone. We have a perfect evening show for you while you're having a dinner. So please keep your eyes locked on the stage because that's gonna be alpha, right? Everyone keeps seeing RWA are popping up in the internet and also the stable coins, which is the ultimate liquidity power that we have here in the VAP tree. And we prepared really great information about that.

So I think every builder would be more than happy to sort of get those data sets that are essentially gold mines, right? To be able to build your next Amazons, Googles, Facebook, whatever. Without further ado, I'll introduce myself and then pause the mic too, yeah guys. So my name is Vlad. I'm a founder and CEO at CryptoC, we're based out of Dubai.

This is one of the leading Web3 marketing studios and we are heavily, heavily involved in RWA's, which is the main prop up, we have them to build, we have them to scale promptly. And so I'm really so stoked to talk about RWA's and how stablecoins... Okay, we have here an expert. What's your name, sir? Turn on the mic.

My name is Matthew Wenneker. Matthew. Okay, Matthew is up on the mic. My name is Matthew Veniker. Matthew.

Okay. Matthew is up on the stage. Huge round of applause for Matthew. Here you go. So, yeah, CryptorCB do quite a lot of stuff in regards to Web3 marketing goals and then essentially now I run the network of the Web3 founders who are doing RWA stuff.

If you do something pretty much similar to that, you know, shout out to us, give me a DM and I'll add you there. So without further ado, guys, please introduce yourself in a couple of words, who you are, what you do, and let's roll with the questions. Mic to you. Hi everyone, so I'm Jack. So I'm from Baker & Consulting, a listed consulting firm in Japan.

So I'm leading the web-based industry in this company and including providing the IT consulting services and the strategy consulting services and other consulting services to a lot of listed companies in Japan. So I'm really proud to talk about something about the RWA and stablecoins because the regulation in Japan here is very clear. So there's a low risk business here. So we can talk later. So, OK, thanks so much.

Thanks, Jack. Hello, everyone. My name much. Thanks, Jack. Hello, everyone.

My name is Nikhil, and I'm from India. I'm a blockchain dev and a product dev as well. Previously, we've been working for Neo Protocol and then built some AI solutions for APAC and MENA region. Good to have a share space with you all folks and then talk about the future of RWWA's and stable coins. Thank you.

Matthew, my go with you. Keep going, sir. with Sony Bank, where the platform that they're building their stablecoin offering on. In the Middle East, working with the Islamic Development Bank on stablecoins, program mobile money, stuff like that. So real-world assets, a little bit, but more stablecoin stuff.

Happy to share ideas and insights if useful. Yeah, thank you so much, guys, for the presentation. I think to some extent, everyone does LWA in a way of building either a web tree to bring web 2 guys here by providing the bridge. So that being said, you give them the real world value and then you are either tied to real world value or you're sort of baked by the real world value to some extent. And then the first question I have for all of you guys is we keep seeing those RWA's are, you know, popping up literally everywhere.

So, and then, but the most, like, I would say common use case we have with real estate, because, I mean, if you see the RWA's, I mean, 80% of them, they're tokenizing real estate, trying to put that on chain. And that makes sense because you bring the liquidity, you have an access to the worldwide, like a people population, whatever. And so what do you think, except of real estate, except of maybe financial products can be the next use case for RWA's to sort of touch the ground and then bringing this huge value of the real world assets to chain, which is the huge shift for how we interact, how the society works in general. So whoever feels the good fit for the start of this question, you can hop in. Okay.

I'll first. So actually, I saw an interesting use case about RAA in Japan now. It's from the Fiddle Security and they built a security token about making a movie. So they had a fundraising to make a movie and give them the secret token and what is the benefit of the token holder is if you get the token you can how to say get in the future when the movie published you can get the movie tickets and the special how to say the movie goods or something else and you can also get how to say the profit share from this movie that is an interesting RWA use case in Japan now. Yeah, great stuff.

I'm going to go next. And then as Vlad just mentioned that RWA, people believe that it's more towards real estate. I feel like it's more than that. It's not only real estate, but it can be like maybe going towards the IP and then the bonds and stuff. So there are multiple aspects where RWAs can play around and then people can leverage the blockchain technology to have more out of it.

And I feel this is the thing people need to be more educated on. And yeah, crypto is more about it, right? As much as you educate people, they adapt it. So people need to adapt IWM in a broader aspect now. Over to you, Matt.

Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I think for me, the kind of use case that brought me into blockchain is actually around capital markets and dematerialization of paper shares or bonds or other financial instruments. We're talking like a $17, $18 trillion business. So I think if you talk about bringing a lot of value on chain, tokenization of traditional financial instruments is what real-world assets, for me, at scale is really about. We can bring real-world assets like stocks, bonds, and everything.

Some of them are dematerialized depending on the market you're in, but dematerialization of private equity or things like that. Here we talk about unlocking a lot of value and making a lot of the exchange of that value friction-free. But I think a bit of a misnomer with real-world assets is that you tokenize something and it becomes liquid. Liquidity, by definition, is a buyer and a seller meeting. The act of tokenizing in a way creates liquidity.

It just creates a new way to trade it, but you need to find buyers and sellers for the asset. So yeah, anyways, that's my thoughts on it. Yep, it all makes sense. And then also when we talk about RWAs, there are two primary ways to sort of raise the funds, right? First one is to launch your utility token, which like tied to essentially some utility within the ecosystem, maybe some governance, whatever.

And the second one is the security token, which is the underlying tokenized asset itself. And then those two are different. They're playing a different role, and we all understand that. by just simply also pretty much aligning with the idea of founders to getting plugged to the worldwide Vaptree ecosystem where everyone can start investing in your company with such as little as $50, let's say, whether it's a financial instrument, whether it's IP, whether it's real estate, right? So how do you think we're going to be the most performing way for the rwa businesses to start doing this capital raise to start i mean essentially plugging in people into their ecosystem and how would you sort of you know split them together you know do they need to launch they are similarly in the parallel way or is it better to start with the security token and then show some traction milestones whatever than to start utility one So what are the tones on that?

I think Matthew can start because he smiles at me and I feel he knows something about this question. I mean, there's no magic to it. We've been doing it since 2017, right? This is, at any rate, I think the method of doing it is established. So ICOs are ICOs under a different name.

It's a different name, but it's all the same. I think that method of capital raising is well established. I think the thing that's more important for the industry is how do we ensure that what's being issued is legit and not a bunch of scamming shit. I think that's what we should focus on as an industry, is making sure that there are some kind of control gates of sorts, whether that's through a DAO or something else, that enables us to ensure that investors that want to put money in are doing so in assets that actually are meaningful. Lekho?

Yeah, I can go next. So what just Matthew added, so from there, if you go around and then, as you just mentioned, that it depends solely on the project, how they can raise funds, be it from STOs or from the token allocations. But then if it's STOs, then you're respecting the government regulations, then the traditional investors can be more attracted towards the project. But then if it's token allocation, there is highly uncertainty about the project, about the roadmap. So the investors, grabbing the eye of the investor, it's highly likely that you might lose there.

So this is what I believe. I would like to learn more about what are your thoughts about it? Yeah, I also think so. The most important thing that I, in one tokenized RWA assets, and is know what is the target user? So what is the target that you want to get money?

So if you want to target the movie fans or the, how to say, idol fans, so you can tokenize the idol group into how to say, secret token, RWA things. So, or you can also, something mentioned before, like you can tokenize a movie making movie that the process of the making a movie uh tokenize all of these things and that is you know what is the target that you you what is the target user that you want to get from from so yeah that is the most important thing that if you know the target user you can get money from them But if you don't know you just how to say that a product and make a Access into the blockchain it will not use how to say not popular. So yeah Yeah, the hundred percent a hundred percent. So if you just hit five thousand dollars on centralized exchange, do you guys believe that or no? Okay, cool.

Now we've got the attention. Perfect. I've got to check. Coin giggle. Yeah, attention first, then the rest goes as a follow-up.

So talking about RWAs, what actually is really interesting here is that most businesses, they are trying to say, okay, we have a roof of RWAs. We do like real world assets. But essentially, they don't have a firm and solid business models behind the back, right? They're just saying this to drive the wave of a narrative, to raise the money because they want to have the marketing really, really like viral. Because, you know, WebTree is all about this marketing this hype cycle and whatsoever and then if you think about that I mean the utopian future would be everyone launches RWAs because that's the faster way to say we're doing something important for the world and that's why the world shall give us some money for that right but we don't have any yield that we can provide them any revenue that comes off of what we do.

And that's like utopian future. And this utopian future is pretty much, I think, all about they are trying to do RWAs. They are tying all those different over-complicating models around. But the thing is, when you build the best Lamborghini in garage, right? But nobody sees that.

There's essentially no demand for that I mean okay good luck to you I shake your hand and yeah do this with a high integrity right so and I think in that way on the other side of the coin you you have to think about the marketing at the early exception of idea because otherwise you won't get buying pressure you won't get demand for usage you won't get anything that the business shall have. And so if you're talking about that, what do you think the next three years can look like for RWAs, where we're heading to, and what essentially we need to maybe solve as a problem or step away the obstacle along the journey? What roadblocks do we have now Matthew started to command something so you can start closer yeah I mean I've been in the blockchain space since 2014 and so I've seen a lot of OGs and real OGs but it's like you know the I think where do we go in three years? Well, I think the more interesting question is, where are we in 10 or 15 years? Because that's when, like, capital markets, for example, I think a lot of...

Can we look that far in Web3, you think? No crystal ball, but, you know, over a short time frame, one to three years, where we see major shifts, maybe I'm the old guy, the OG guy that says, well, it'll take time. But it does take time. And I think that in putting real world assets, whether that's real estate or that's capital markets or that's art or whatever you want to put on chain, there are initiatives that are going that are doing that and those will continue. But when will we see major mass adoption?

that are going that are doing that and those will continue. But when will we see major mass adoption? I think we're still 10, 15 years out before we see a significant percentage of real world assets being put on chain. The thing that's great about it is that the possibility, the benefit, the advantage of doing it is established at this point. But you have a lot of archaic players in the marketplace that are still working with archaic systems and it will take time for that migration from what two technologies to what three technologies to really take a foothold.

So I like to look at it along the time horizon and say, okay, we'll be there in 15 years. When we will be in three years, we'll take a couple more steps. But I'm the old guy. Okay, does that mean that the infra is not ready yet to build all of those RWAs on-chain? Or UX and we as humans aren't ready yet to face this new role in the future?

I'm a big believer that today the tech is ready. The tech is ready. There are some challenges that still need to be addressed, like privacy on-chain, like interoperability between chains. But those are not monumental tasks at this point in time. Those are largely sell-for.

So for me, my perspective is that the infrastructure is essentially ready to go at a much bigger scale than we are doing today. But if you've worked in a bank or you've worked in an enterprise, you know that change doesn't happen overnight. This is stuff that takes generation, potentially, in order to have a new wave of management that comes in in a large enterprise context or in a public sector context where they're more open to new ideas and new technologies. And for the next generation, it'll be like, well, this is just, why the hell would we use something that's inefficient? Let's just use the most efficient thing.

And that will be web-tree-based technologies. But we're not, it'll take, so my view is it'll take time, but the tech is ready. I have a line, so Nishio, step in, please. Yeah. So being a product guy, what I would add in for here was, of course, the infra is definitely ready to get started, but the mass adoption won't take place until the government plays an important role, just like the current state of the stablecoins, where it is backed with USD.

important role just like the current state of the stable coins where it is packed with USD but if you go on chain and show the complete transparency the banks needs to be shown a couple of weeks back I was with the VP of circle and then this is what we were discussing about that how we can go beyond what the current state is but you know what if we go around then the current state is. But you know what? If we go around then, the governments won't allow. And then people can definitely blindly trust the governments. And then when they are not getting involved, it could be highly uncertainty that the people might adopt this current state of getting into the completely on-chain RWA.

So, this is what I feel. Yeah. Jack? Yeah, I think that the technology is ready, but the industry is not ready now. So I saw a video that the EX Google co-founder, something like this, had a speech in the Stanford that he said, why AI cannot be used widely in how do you say that the AI cannot reach the master option now.

So because the industry is not ready for all of the solutions, the infrastructures to the AI things. We are just putting the old business model, the old use case into a new technology. But the new technology is really new, including AI. AI blockchain is also the total new technology, we will, how to say, satisfied, we will design a new model or a way to use these technologies. It is the most important thing that we need to do now.

So something like this, even now, not every institution in Japan, the banks or the security companies, they even don't have a wallet so but even they don't have a wallet they can't why they cannot eat why they can't use the other laser stable coins they even not have a wallet yet so yeah that is the that is the meaning that the technology is ready but the industry is not ready now so yeah it all makes sense what you just said um talking about stable coins and how they come into picture. I think you would agree with me that the dominant part of the VAP2 liquidity is being bridged to VAP3 through stable coins. Because, you know, there's nothing to lose, probably. When you talk about stable coins like, let's say, Tether, that is being tied and packed to USD price price so it's sort of centralized organization that creates the liquidity flow and converts that from the amount of the usd they have on their balance sheets like that's the first way of the adoption of the stable coins the other one that we are seeing uh keep popping up right now is there um i mean after them that was for sure the algorithmic stable coins, right? We also, the Luna crash, blah, blah, blah, we all kind of took the lessons from that.

But now it's sort of the, I think, era of the synthetic stable coins where we see that the value and the price to which I think the Matthew is going to be extremely relevant to answer that question. When the synthetic assets, you see that that is being packed to the stable coin and it's sort of the baked by the a couple of different assets from the VAP tree, maybe that's blue chips, maybe Ethereum, Bitcoin, whatever. And so it creates the real internet money that is not sort of, you know, anyone can hope in and change the order of how it works. So what do you guys think about the synthetic stable coins and how are they performing in the RWAs if you've seen some sort of use cases of that? So, yeah, I can go first for this.

But just like, you know, Vlad mentioned about Tether. Tether just got into Tron now. Vlad mentioned about Tether. Tether just got into Tron now. What I believe is sometimes the chain can cause an issue.

Different chains, be it Solana or some other chains, the congestion issue can cause... What is the time? Does Solana work right now or no? We can't write. Breakfast time.

I'm sorry, guys. Cheers. All right. So I was just saying that that could cause an issue where, let's say, people are getting into it, but then the chain issues got to get them stopped. So that's one of the issue for getting multiple on-chain and then other risks like high volatility for Ethereum and Bitcoin can also be an issue.

So maybe if that's solved in an other way around can definitely play a vital role here. Maybe I would like to learn about your thoughts about it. Jack, would you like to say something? It depends on what kind of use case. If you want to use the stablecoin as fiat money, that is preferred to issue a stablecoin like USDC, the centralized stablecoin.

But if you want to use in the DeFi farming or anything else like this part, it will be better to use some stablecoins like Pact or BTC or something like this. Over to you. Algorithmic stable coins go boom. I stay away. It's like you're at a shop and trying to make the payment and then it doesn't work.

That was a good hook. We can put it as a headline of this conversation. All right. Okay, so we are running off time a little bit. And I think the last question from my side is going to be pretty short and precise because we see that for RWAs, even though the infra is partly ready, I would say, not that much yet as we want it to be for sure.

And the user sort of things, they're also getting sort of used to how it works and how we can invest in the new way of the Web3 era, whatever. But then when it comes to generating demand for RWAs, and we at CryptoCity have an approach of creating their own chain and off-chain funnel where we educate people first. We bring them some value. And then after, we can ask them, okay, guys, if you like what we do, let's align with our idea. We can hope in and let's drive this ship together to the point B, whatever we want to be.

Because when you ask something without giving, that's a little bit like a bad manner, right? It's impolite for sure at first. But then when it comes to demand generation style, can you guys maybe name me your top two or top three, I mean, bullpark list of things that can help RWA builders to essentially bring a demand for what they're putting on chain because that's, at the end of the day, what determines the success of a project. I'll maybe just give one. Leverage existing networks.

Then Jack would say five. Mine's a very short list. I mean, creating liquidity for an asset is all about having buyers. And anyone can tokenize an asset, but you're going to have buyers for it. So the more you can leverage existing networks, the tap into existing investor pools, the better off you'll be.

So you mean plugging into existing blockchains and their DeFi ecosystems to be able to extract the value from that and tying this to your RAAs, right? Yeah. If you try to create a community from... There are a couple of communities that have done very well to go from zero to big in a short period of time, but that's a very big ask. Unless you have very deep pockets, maybe you can manage to do it from a marketing perspective.

But I think if that's not the case for the builders out there, then try to leverage other networks where you can add value to a specific ecosystem and then draw on the value that's already locked in that. Maybe bring in some new value. But starting a new network from scratch is a very tall order. Yep. Okay.

Nikhil? Yeah. is a very tall order. Yep. Okay, Nikhil?

Yeah, so just like Matt said, maybe diversifying the investment portfolio could definitely help giving better returns to the investors, and that's how you attract more. So yeah, that's what I had in my head as well. So over to you, Jack. Jack, say them. Yeah, the advice for me is to find the real demand so not the fake demand so to solve the real problem something like the if I pay this money if I transfer this money from the bank to bank it need to cost three days if the blockchain technology can skip a point in things can solve it in 33 seconds it will be a good real demand so from something like this it is a good question i think yeah okay thank you guys uh so much for being on this panel uh jack nick hill matthew thank you so much for sharing the alpha with the thank you i mean guys please some attention here up on the stage thank you so much for being with us it's a lightening i understand let's run the big round of applause for the legends here up on the panel rwa stable coins we're with you okay thank you so much guys the time is up and i wish everyone have a blessed day