Meetup 0x19 (#25) | Arbitrum DAO Meetup

Hello. Our pop-up is working now. So, we can start. Uh here we have uh our meet up with our bit room. And I have uh a few announcements about it Warso and Collective 3.

So first of all welcome to our uh collector 3 uh community hub and if you are if you want to work with us u in this beautiful office you can uh talk to me after the meetup and uh I will tell you all about it uh how to rent the desks and uh what we are organizing here and what are the plans uh like for for for the community members uh also if builder going to dev connect and there is a start startup world cup by crashnto and uh you can apply with our it wars so code and you will get a fast track uh to the uh demo day during dev connect and uh supposedly vitalik is going to be there to listen to your pitches. So if you have a startup and if you are going to dev connect talk to me after the meetup and uh I will give you the code and all the links and uh our beautiful pop uh from uh October uh it's not from from the meetup it's for visiting uh our community hub. Uh so if you have uh the application called pop-up home you can scan location and uh um you will get a pop-up. It's running on arbitrum. So you know you can already use uh the network we are talking uh about today.

Uh and the last one thing we have our uh merch press. So after the meetup if you want to print your bag uh you can do it uh over there I will tell you all about it. So general I didn't put any links uh sorry uh so if you are interested in any of this talk to me after the meetup and uh I will explain in details. Um and yes now we start our proper part. Uh so today we have one presentation from Kishek Kurbineski who will talk more about arbitrum dao and opportunities for builders on arbitrum and then we have two uh shorter presentations from our hackers uh who were hacking on arbitrum during our hackathon uh and they will tell you uh their stories.

Who am I? My name is Chris and I'm working for a project called L2B. Uh if you don't know L2B uh we are this platform that assesses security guarantees for Ethereum based L2s. So basically what we can tell you is if you are putting your money on some L2 how safe it is more or less or rather how risky it is. Um and in L2B I'm responsible for two things.

One is governance and second is partnerships. But for the sake of this presentation the more important is the governance part. Uh why governance in L2BIT? Uh we do not have a DAO. We are not a DAO.

But as self-proclaimed Ethereum ecosystem stewards, we are big delegates usually in most L2 Dows. So when those Dows were formed, uh we are pretty well known in the ecosystem. So usually people who are delegating a lot of them chose us to delegate to us. Therefore we are big delegates in optimism. uh arbitrum zik sync polygon scroll tao even unis swap um lisk what else someone else I don't remember every dow that we are active in and I'm responsible I'm the delegate so if you are curious like who is the dowo delegate it's me uh and yeah and we are trying to push for ethereum um ecosystem agenda in this uh in this dows and make sure that they are and they remain Ethereum aligned and uh and they are pushing forward the uh the ecosystem.

Uh so today I want to talk to you about arbitum and we were present in arbitrum even before uh the DA uh before the TG uh as we were already assessing them we were uh checking their security guarantees we were working with them on making sure that those security guarantees are in place and especially working on the fraud proof system uh because when they launched um uh especially when uh they they they they had the TG like fraud proof systems were not uh you know not not working yet really like they were probably the first ones with with actually working uh fraud system optimism was technically first but they then turned off uh their fraud proof system and didn't turn it on for a couple of years um which causes us troubles to this day. If anybody of you saw the polygon drama yesterday on Twitter, then the root cause of this is this uh fact that we left optimism on our dashboard even after they turned off uh the um fraud proofs. However, talking about arbitrum, two and a half years ago around April um 2023, they launched a token. When they launched the token, they started a DAO because uh they did something interesting. They put the control of whole system all the smart contracts and the treasury in the hands of delegates and token holders.

So the DAO directly on chain controls both the treasury and all the systems that are part of arbitrum including the bridge uh which was a very brave and uh you know risky move back then it's still like they are still on the frontier of this. I don't know if there is any other big DA L2 DAO at least that that that follows uh suit probably Z um however they were the first uh and they like gave all the power to the token holders and then they asked to ratify um the um establishment of the DAO by ratifying the constitution and some by basic rules in the vote that was called AIP1 from arbitum improvement proposal number one and the DAO rejected this vote. So after a huge drama that was unleashed on Twitter uh the DAO rejected this initial vote. Why? because um the root cause of the uh this concern was that before the TGE uh a large portion of the DAO treasury that was mentioned as the DAO treasury in the documentation was like sent to arbitum foundation for their discretionary use.

it was 7 750 million uh OB tokens and the comm community didn't like it like the community was like if you really want to uh for the DAO to allocate those uh funds you should ask first um after some time and a lot of discussions and uh a lot of nerves um we came up to some agreement uh so the funds were moved to arbitral foundation but they were put in a vesting contract. Uh so they are still being vested for another a year and a half. Um yeah and the DAO basically showed who you know who's in charge. Um and then the DAO because of that Arbitum Foundation uh took the approach that okay if if the DAO is like that maybe we should not mess with them like you you know we we barely made it to to have the treasury so let's not um let's not argue with those guys and they took a backseat position. Also you have to remember back then what the regulatory sentiment was and how uh how powers that be especially in the US were looking into people who were in charge of crypto projects.

So they were trying to dissociate themselves as much as possible uh from actually running things in arbitum and this was left to the DAO to to to manage. So we as delegates we were making all the decisions and we still are making all the decisions in terms of upgrading the system. Every arbitum upgrade had to be confirmed by the DAO. Uh all the spendings uh the DAO decides on every treasury spending. Of course like this money that is allocated to our foundation is already gone and they are able to use it uh at their discretion.

But any additional spending from the DAO needs to be confirmed and approved uh by the DAO. Uh and nobody told us how to do that. Basically they just distributed the tokens. They they established this DAO. Then after this whole drama they were like okay now you you deal with that you will manage how to self-organize and you will you will run this whole ecosystem.

Uh and we did. Uh of course it wasn't easy. uh it wasn't uh smooth, but the DAO did learn how to push push it forward, how to how to self-manage. Um and one of the goals for the DAO is to support uh builders, support the ecosystem to make sure that there is growth um in arbitum ecosystem. And you might have heard about some initiatives that we pushed forward.

uh all that I will mention were uh contentious that why that's why I say that you might have heard about it because there was for each of them there was some kind of a drama on Twitter um first big uh initiative that the DAO funded was a grant program it was called uh pluralistic grant program something like that uh by plurality labs um and disruption Joe you might have heard about disruption Joe from Twitter and he was running this program and this program was supposed to and like the goal of this program was to uh to support initiatives in the DA and support builders. Um it had some successes although um h the amount of successes is is uh kind of controversial. However, one initiative that was a byproduct of this program was the DAO uh RWA uh investment program uh which is called STEP uh I don't remember right now what the acronym stands for but it's uh sustainable treasury something something uh but the goal was basically for the DAO to buy tibials American tibials why to diversify the treasury Because in the beginning the only thing that the DAO had was ARB tokens and you know we've seen some Dows in the past and we seen some we we've seen some TGES in the past and we knew that if we just leave it like that and we keep spending up then our price uh is going to go down with time and we'll be left with something that is uh inevitably going uh down. So the idea was let's diversify the funds. Let's start by buying some RWAs which are pretty safe and generate safe yield.

Um especially at the time it was like the safe thing to do and also by doing that we could um we could uh initiate RWA adoption um on arbitum and that worked. Uh long story short, to this day, the DAO holds around, I may be wrong with the exact numbers, but around 90 million uh dollars uh worth of uh AWAs uh across different projects. Uh we've seen companies like um securityize um which is a uh company backed by uh by BlackRock or Franklin Templeton and all those big uh American funds apply to the DAO uh writing posts with applications to the DAO so that we buy their product uh in this program. Uh and today the DAO has 90 million uh worth of reserves um in um in American table bills mostly. Uh another source of revenue for the DAO is obviously sequence sequencer revenue.

uh I don't remember the exact number right now but the DAO has significant holdings of sequencer re revenue because as I mentioned the DAO controls everything including treasury and including sequencer revenue so it's up to the DAO to decide what to do with that right now what we are doing we are actively investing those funds um across several different initiatives including staking uh at some point it is discussed uh for the DAO to um distribute this income from uh different revenue streams to the token holders. However, this is long time in the future. Um I I don't expect it anytime soon. Uh so this was the first two quite controversial uh initiatives. Then comes the f the biggest controvers controversy in arbitum so far.

Uh which was called gaming gaming catalyst program uh right now called arbitum gaming ventures. And the idea was like there there were two people um in the DAO that came to some delegates asking to fund the gaming um incentive program uh gaming support program with 200 million up at at that moment when when they came to the DAO this 200 million app was worth $400 million. So they came to us and asked hey how about we launch a grant program with barely $400 million. We will manage it. Uh so at first we thought this is crazy.

Uh but they were stubborn enough uh to convince us that this is actually a good idea. And while some people thought, hey, how about we cut like maybe two or three zeros from from this uh number, uh the the amount the size of the amount invested actually was probably the most important thing because like this made moves like when when we announced that we are doing 200 or $400 million um gaming fund in arbitum, this actually gained traction. uh it uh attracted a lot of attention and right now it's this program is operating of course the like the value of this ARP went significantly down so right now it's probably more like 50 million um gaming fund but still it's a fund that is owned by the DAO that invests in games so if you if you are doing games if you're a publisher or a gaming studio you can reach out to arbitum arbitum gaming ventures. Uh I think that the address is arbitrumgaming.com uh and you can seek funding uh investments actually uh although there are some grants as well uh for your project.

Another controversial idea that the DAO uh funded in um in its history was the STIP program uh which stands for something something incentive program. We like we wanted to to basically distribute incentives to D5 protocols as arbitum was known from for DeFi. We figured okay how about we incentivize usage of those protocols with the Dow treasury and we've spent on this program something around more than 100 million AB tokens. So it was a huge program in the beginning. Uh huge and not that much successful.

Uh even though it had three different um versions like three different seasons of this program, uh I would say that because it wasn't well structured, the actual success of this program is at least questionable. Uh some say that hey, we don't know how would the market look like if we didn't have this program. But on the other hand like quantifiable metrics uh were not great to say the least. However, this allowed us to learn and uh take some lessons uh from this experiment. And now we have another incentive program that is running right now uh called the drip uh which stands for defy renaissance incentive program.

uh arbitum calls current year a defi renaissance for arbitrum. Um so if you go to arbitrumdrip.com you can see where you can invest your money in like right now the program is about looping strategies and if you loop on arbitrum you can get additional um incentives from the treasury from this program itself. Um I was supposed to tell you about opportunities. So these are the opportunities that are available.

There are also some open-ended uh opportunities. Most important is uh our grants. So if you are a builder and you are looking for a grant, there are some opportunities for you in arbitum. Although I have to be honest, uh it's not easy to get this grant. It's not like that you can come up with an idea and you will get funded.

Sometimes that's the case but not always. Uh so we have right now at least three or four different opportunities for you how you can get involved in the DAO and build on arbitrum. The first one is called DAO grants program and maybe I can uh show another web page. It's called like if you go to arbitrum I hope that I'm writing no arbitrum.questbook.

app you will see the DAO arbitum DAO grants program. It has five different categories that are open. Uh, Arbitum new protocols and ideas, Arbitum education, community growth and events, Arbitum gaming developer tooling on Arbitum one and Styus 3.0 and Arbitum Orbit domain. Uh what you should do if you're interested in applying into any of these grants, you should go to the program details and see first of all what are they funding and then who is funding because each of those domains we call them domains.

Uh each of the those domains is managed by a single person or entity which reviews all the proposals. Um and they are the ones who decide whether you will grant get a grant or not. The maximum amount that you can get from this program is $25,000 uh with an easy track and 50,000 with a more complicated track. Why more complicated? Because for 25,000 you need approval just from the domain allocator.

The single person or entity that is responsible for their own domain. For 50,000 two different domain allocators needs to need to approve you. So the domain allocator that they applying to and they need to find another domain allocator that would say yes like I approve to to to fund the bigger amount. Um and this is pretty straightforward like this is what probably one of the easiest ways to get funding for your idea. You really have to convince just this person who or like entity that is responsible for uh funding and you can reach out to them.

You can talk to them. If they don't like your idea they will tell you. If they don't like a specific aspect of your idea and they would need you to just modify it, they will tell you that that as well. So you can negotiate with them. And I would highly recommend you if you are interesting in like taking this path to really get in touch with whoever is responsible for the domain and see what are they looking for and if your idea actually fits that what what they're looking for.

uh one like the domain that is currently has the most available funds is new protocols and ideas and the reason why it has the most funds is that it funded the least projects so far. Uh the reason being that they are keeping quite a high bar in terms of what they want to fund. they are rejecting a lot of applications but again if you really have a good idea if you go to them and talk to them like I know these guys so I know that um they are reasonable people so they will discuss with you um what they like and what they don't like in your idea um another domain is education community growth and events and this is actually the domain that if Warso uh got funded from so the the grant from arbitrum um to E4 Warso came from this program itself. So EO Warso applied for this um growth sorry um community growth and events domain and they were approved and therefore we could enjoy Waro uh partially thanks to arbitum. Uh for the other domains if you were interested in details you can reach out to me afterwards.

I will tell you more or less like what I know about them. Uh they are kind of self-explanatory. Apart from arbitum orbit domain arbitum orbit if you don't know it, it's the arbitum stack for building rollups. So there is arbitum one but you can also build your own rollup uh on top of arbitrum technology and it's called arbitum orbit. Uh there are nuances like you probably would have to share like if you are settling to Ethereum mainet you will have to share uh part of your revenue and you know sign an agreement of arbitation if you are settling to arbitrum one so you are building an L3 then you can do it without asking anybody it's permissionless uh you just have to launch it and this domain is meant to support projects that are looking to do this Uh it is a bit like it recently got revamped to an idea of arbitum cities.

Uh if you are interested just just you know catch me after after the presentation I will tell you what it is about. It's not that straightforward. However, it's about bridging web two businesses into um into arbitum. Uh so these are the this these are probably the easiest ways for you to get funded if you want to have some initial funding for to bootstrap your own idea. There are other opportunities as well.

Uh like second one that is pretty open-ended but is not as straightforward and not as easy to get is arbitum foundation grants. uh they are not even announcing those grants anywhere because they don't want too many applicants that will get rejected uh instantly but these grants are available and there are projects that uh are receiving those grants. What you need to do however is you you need to contact someone from Arbitum Foundation like the barrier is a bit higher here. You need to find someone from Arbitum Foundation that would like your project and convince them that they should fund you and they will contact you with whoever is needed for uh approval of this grant. It is also possible it's like if they like your idea, if your idea is at least a bit mature already, um then it's I I've heard that it's also not that hard to get and uh once you get it, it's uh very straightforward how to unlock it.

But it's not as straightforward as here. Here you can just apply. You know exactly who to contact and and this is pretty pretty easy. Arbitum Foundation grants are much less straightforward. There is a third opportunity.

If you are already a mature builder that has a product but and you are looking to launch but you don't have funds to cover audit um review uh security security audit then there is a special another type of grant program uh meant for security audits. uh you apply there, you describe your solution, you describe your needs. Uh they matchmake you with uh with the proper auditors. Uh sometimes you might need to cover part of the cost but you can be subsidized for the for the other part of it. Uh of course it comes with some strings attached.

You need to deploy on arbitrum. Uh ideally you should be building on arbitum exclusively. uh if you're interested again find me and I will guide you where to learn about it. And the last opportunity that I want to mention is the DAO itself. uh because the DAO you know it's a decentralized autonom autonomous organization and I I you know used to say that it is decentralized it is autonomous but when it comes to organizations it's rather oi uh but we are changing this right now like the DAO is changing it right now uh recently we established a second foundation whoever uh if we have any Asimo funds here you know that there always needs to be a second foundation to correct the course of the uh first foundation.

So we have a second foundation in the DAO which is called arbitum da opco from operational company uh which is like the goal of this organization is to allow for the DAO to execute things uh more efficiently and especially to reward and incentivize contributors to the DAO. In the past we had something which is called delegate incentive program. I think it's still running but it's ending right now. Um and was supposed to incentivize delegates such as myself uh to to like add something of value to the DAO launch initiatives like uh um push forward um events for example stuff stuff like that. Uh this program is being revamped right now and it will be open not just for delegates.

Um actually it will be open for contributors. It will take some time for it to be launched. Uh but I think that in um two months from now uh we should already have it and then you would be able to get paid for simply adding something of value to the DAO like initiating some working groups leading those working groups uh proposing uh some initiatives. uh it's quite likely that there will be there will be a separate fund uh for structuring new initiatives in the DAO. So I can't tell you right now what exactly will it be because it's not it hasn't been voted yet but it's coming and uh some form of it will launch definitely soon.

Um to wrap it up uh if you are coming to Buenosirus for dev connect there will be a lot of events from arbitrum. I don't know the details yet because they are being ironed out right now as we speak. uh but there will be a lot of events uh for arbitrum in Buenosirus and you will be able to talk directly to the people who are managing all of these things that I just mentioned you will be able to talk directly to the delegates uh and to the OPCO people and to the foundation people and if you are interesting in getting engaged in arbitum or building on arbitrum probably this is the easiest way to you know find your way around all this mess that the DAO and the foundation and offchain labs and all the community is uh if you need help with that feel free to reach out to me uh I am rather active delegate in the DAO and if I will be able to help you I will gladly do that if I won't be able to help you I will just tell you that that sorry I can't do much uh but sometimes I was able to push things forward so uh that's it for my you know thank you uh for coming to my TED talk uh Now, if you have any questions, I don't know if we have time for questions. Uh,

few questions.

Yeah, we have time for a few questions.

Thank you. How can we reach out to you?

Uh, find me here. Um, or like this is my how can I write something here? Like, can we open the text editor or something?

Just the Telegram QR code.

Yeah. So, Kesta uh in Polish it's it's my handle uh both Twitter Twitter telegram and if you write my name Christopher Bansky arbitrum you will find me however you or L2 beat

uh so just tell me that you met me at this event it will make things easier uh I'm pretty easily reachable so feel free to ping me or contact me anyway. Okay, the question is uh suppose we have a mature project the RWA already running on other chains like polygon and now we're expanding to arbitum uh obtaining the grant is not the uh ultimate point technically it it is working just requires deployment the question is how to how to obtain the bootstrap capital does arbitum pro arbitum dao have partners whoever who can provide the bootstrap capital just like uh Binance have recently done it uh for the B for the BNB smart chain.

So uh reach out to me. I will put you in touch with people who would be able to help you maybe. However, I will be very honest with you. Uh historically bootstrap capital was not the easiest thing to obtain in arbitrum as people who are in charge of those AWA investments they rather tend to invest in established uh well-known names. Uh there are a lot of projects that were applying for bootstrap capital and they weren't very successful.

Let me put like that. However, like I would encourage you to try to so ping me and I will get you in touch with people who might be able to help you.

Yeah, thank you.

Yes, gentlemen in the front.

Uh so I think in the beginning you mentioned something about security uh and it's your job to I guess do security audits on different uh systems. Uh, and I was wondering I think parts of the AWS infrastructure went down the other day and you know we like most people think that decentralized applications are decentralized but many of them I think even many chains like didn't work properly. what what are your thoughts on so

what happened

to clarify we do not do security audits you're asked like if I understood correctly you ask what I was talking about to beat itself that we are doing we are assessing security guarantees it's a bit different thing uh although I know that it can be confusing what we assess is uh like for the L2 to be a proper L2 to actually inherited and extend Ethereum security it needs to implement certain mechanism to allow you to feel safe on this chain. Uh I won't get deeper but I can get to it uh after that. So what we do is we check whether those projects actually implemented those mechanisms that they claim that they did. Uh as you can imagine more often than not they are not implemented uh or at least some parts of them are not implemented. So what you can see on our website is what exactly is implemented and what isn't and what you should be careful about if you are deploying your funds on a different chain.

Uh getting to your question about AWS uh you know this AWS malfunction exposed a lot of dependencies on AWS infrastructure uh across the internet. Um crypto wasn't uh wasn't you know uh safe from that. However, uh to my knowledge, I can say that Ethereum worked as uh it was supposed to work. Some chains experienced issues. Although to my knowledge, those issues were mostly about the interfaces that were hosted on a AWS and yes like there are a lot of interfaces that are hosted as a web two applications.

uh so in case like they are hosted in the cloud so in case uh AWS or any other cloud provider uh faces issues those interfaces uh could stopped working however the chain itself uh usually I don't want to give a you know strict guarantee but in in most cases the chain itself is decentralized and is working and if it's a proper L2 uh on top of Ethereum it should implement all the mechanisms that allow you to withdraw your funds and exit this chain this L2 even if the L2 itself is not working. To give you an example, Dydx, which was a pretty popular PBEX uh pretty popular like two years ago and three years ago and four years ago, uh they were operating as an um Ethereum rollup, proper rollup with many like all the all the security guarantees implemented and they stopped their operations on Ethereum last year because they moved to Cosmos for reasons. So they turned off all their infrastructure, all all their Ethereum infrastructure a year ago in November. When they did it, uh there was there was still like $40 million locked in their bridge on Ethereum. However, because they were a proper roll rollup that was implemented correctly, even though they stopped uh serving the Ethereum customers, the Ethereum itself was keeping them safe.

And those users up to this day are still able to withdraw those funds and half of this amount was already withdrawn since then. And it wasn't just a random money. I know that because we were working with the X, full disclaimer. uh and I know some of the stories like what money was logged there. So it wasn't just like random retail money.

There were funds, there were institutions that had those funds locked. Uh there are reasons why sometimes you cannot move your funds even though you would love to. For example, the use case that I usually give when pitching why what we do at L2B is important is you can put your funds on some chain and then you can enter a legal dispute which would enable you to move those funds until this dispute is settled and as I say all those L2s are startups and universal law of startups says that you know in five to 10 years 90% of those startups will cease to exist. So if and you know knowing how how long sometimes it takes for the legal dispute to settle especially in Poland uh you can find yourself keeping money on a chain that ceases to exist while you still are fighting in court. So in that case it's better to have your funds and uh on an L2 that implemented those security guarantees.

So once your uh dispute settles you would be able to withdraw them to Ethereum. uh although you know full disclosure do your own research like actually check the chain on L2B and check what exactly do you need to look after if you are keeping this funds on O2 I hope that this answered your question thank you very much any other questions gentlemen there in white shirt

yeah let's make it on our last question

yeah Thank you so much. I just briefly checked TVL on Abbitram seems to be at 18B and the FDV of OP seems to be at 3B. Um, you said the uh DAO be able to do any upgrades, but L2B says it's uh only a zero delay, zero day delay situation for the security council. Can I buy 4B worth of AB and steal 18B or is the security council the back stop there?

It's nuanced I would say. Uh the So first of all there is a security council in arbitrum and if you try to just steal the money from the bridge I'm pretty sure that security council would uh kill such an operation. uh this is what the security council is for. Uh on top of that, first of all, you wouldn't be able to obtain as much AR uh to do this uh currently. Also, I believe that if you try to do something like that, there would be a uh community coordinated effort to uh stop you.

For example, yesterday we had a uh a situations that is that is kind of like in this uh in this area. Uh we have right now security council elections for arbitum and there was a drama because uh one organization like long story short somebody tried to uh buy themselves a seat at security council. um for like I trust that these are like white hat uh this is a white hat organization just want to expose the risks however like they didn't like and they were they did buy uh around 16 or 14 million worth of uh Arab voting power to vote for themselves for the security council elections for some time they were third in this classification but it took like three hours to get them about um like through community effort. So uh I would say that there are different mechanisms right now that would prevent you from stealing the funds from the bridge. However, I also want to mention that this is a uh attack vector.

It is a governance attack vector. There are other situations that could be much more problematic because like stealing funds is pretty obviously wrong. However, there are many things how you can utilize those funds that is not outright stealing but it's controversial. Uh compound had this issue some time ago with a user called Humpty that wanted to engage the funds from uh the Treasury if I remember correctly or protocol in some weird way. I could also imagine someone trying to obtain enough voting power in the DAO for example to use the funds in the bridge in their protocol.

Uh and this wouldn't be as a straightforward situation as just stealing funds. So I'm not sure if Security Council for example would step in in that case. I would actually expect them to not to unless this is really a outright malicious uh action. Uh otherwise this is like what the governance is supposed to be used to like it it is a governance for a reason. One of the reasons how to use governance is to buy yourself enough voting power that you can actually steal the protocol somewhere.

Uh so yeah like this is an this is an open question uh and it's a bit more nuanced. Thank you very much. This was the last question. Uh I will stay here until the end. So if you have any other questions you can catch me later.

Uh thank you very much and see you.

All right. Hi. Uh I'm Daniel. I'm blockchain engineer and sui blockchain ambassador in Poland. Um also I won two hackathons uh is worksho first one it was uh is virtual spring hack and second one main hackathon which was uh one month ago and uh first our project was um web 3i agent which allows founders to deploy any crash chain tokens westing stakings websites just sending a simple message to EI agent uh and it is uh second one it was platform for projects and for users which allows to create quests with rewards.

So um users were able to complete simple tasks and uh get rewards for it. And uh after completing these uh hakatons we decide to create uh our small team labs and uh now we are building a lot of cool products for our clients. Um and during class hackathon we use it stylus and why uh first uh cause was because uh it's new technology it it's interesting to try it and uh it uh allows to code smart contracts in Rust. It's really cool uh stuff. Uh for sure it's possible also to code in uh C and C++ but um RAS CDK is uh the most uh advanced also um we used this one technology because our target users for our platform was um new three users in web3 space.

So low low cost transactions is really important for them and um does it means that still fully replace solidity? Um it's actually not. Uh because solidity and stylus works together perfectly. Even if um transaction calling solidity function and this function is executed on EVM then this function calls stylus uh execution is moving from EVM to vos and uh then executing for this function is uh cheaper and more optimized. So it's possible to move uh part of parts of your logic to services writen in stylus and it's allow you to uh code uh fast with solidity and um uh use all uh optimizations of stylus for your um app.

It's what we did during uh hackathon and uh for now we are actively contribute into stylus um implementing new features like uh CI uh opportunity to set up CI during creating new projects or uh adding uh structures like in solidity. So it allows to store a batch of data and also we are fixing uh some bugs we detected during working with uh stylus. Uh our goal to become uh top 10 contributors for stylus and now we are working for project um for uh liquidity aggregator for unis swap uh pools. Um it allows user to deposit stable coins like USDT, USDC and um choose strategy for example investing in uh pools with highest APR, TVL or maybe daily volume and um our app automatically rebalance these um funds between pools and for sure user can uh later withdraw his funds with um with earnings. And uh now the problem um when we did the same project for our client about one year ago um we faced this with issue that um um it was important to make everything onchain even pool aggregations but it was about thousands pools for aggregation and uh it was not possible to aggregate during via two EVM limits and gas per transactions.

Um for sure it was possible during hashing and cryptography. Uh but uh it would take a lot of time. So um then we moved aggregation to offchain but um it was some centralizations issue and uh uh our users uh would enforce to review uh cal data all time uh to be sure that they are secure and now we are building the same app but uh using stylus for aggregation pools uh it allows to aggregate more than thousand uh 1,000 uh pools in one transaction without any problems and uh it allows us to move some logic to wasp uh directly with um calculation and also some um interface for user and uh it allows us to move all up uh onchain without uh any uh offchain and backend integrations and it's what we doing right now. So it's our small team. Um yeah, we have devs, we have business operations, UIUX design and uh you can scan my LinkedIn or website if you have any questions in future or just for contact.

Um it is maybe now question time for any questions about hackathon stylus working with it and maybe any issues uh we discovered during uh working with stylus.

Why did you wanted to bring Rust uh in like um in EVM contracts and what is was the yeah the idea behind it? Uh you mean using crust for uh uh for contracts? Yeah.

Inside of solidity. Yeah.

Yeah.

It's because uh Rust can be compiled to uh web assembly and then this web assembly is executed not on EVM but on was also is executed onchain with in blockchain 3 but uh it's about uh 100x cheaper and uh and more optimized. So even working with data reading loading uh is more optimized because also has uh inbuilt cache. So uh yes solidity is not so easy to compile into web assembly and rust is more advice advanced language for it. So it has uh a lot of inbuilt features so it's more secure.

Okay. Thanks.

Any more questions? Here's the mic. Oh yeah, thank you. Hi. How you organizing these pools?

As I understand, for example, investors will uh add their money to this pool and based on the strategy, it will invest in some I mean um instruments or currencies. Yeah. And it will be necessary to pay some fee for transaction. and how it's organized. I mean, is this funds from this pool invested directly to the coin and this is one transaction and it's paid and this fee is splitted for all let's say users or traders, customers.

Yeah. Or it will be invested once I mean like one transaction per user. Uh yeah, it's one transaction per user for deposit uh funds into his own vault and uh then uh we are doing uh sometimes rebalancing and this rebalancing is doing in one transaction for all users. Uh because uh at the end of the day it's uh one position for all users. Uh so it works in this optimized way.

Uh you user need uh for real two transaction. First one for deposit and second one for withdraw. Uh and for rebalancing uh it's a cheap fee but we are covering it uh via uh deposit and withdraw fee. It's directly uh transferred to treasury and treasuries use it for trigger rebalance and this rebalance function is u without any access control because it just trigger aggregation on chain and everybody can trigger it. But yeah, it's uh every day triggered by Treasury.

All right. Thank you very much. Oh, there's another question. That's great.

Very very interesting and important topic. Yeah. The question is um so correct me if I'm wrong. Uh uh users so users provide liquidity uh into unis swap pools for instance. Yeah.

What's about impermanent lost? How do you solve this problem?

Uh you mean lost uh because token spread.

Yeah. uh this risk is not handled because it's a regular risk during uh depositing into unis swap pools but as I said before a user can't can choose his strategy there is also uh strategy with uh tokens which had uh the most less uh price change for example for the last month. So user decide in which pool he was in which category of pool he would like to deposit but uh uh manipulating with token price it's uh it's uh regular feature for unis swap pools and for all liquidity pools. Are you familiar with yield basis protocol? Uh yeah

yeah yeah they they said that they like solve this problem implement in permanent laws

possible but we don't use it in our implementation right now but uh we'll check it later. Okay.

Okay. Thank you.

Yeah. Thank you. All right. Kind of the same trackment there. Uh so you decide the the range and the rebalancing points for for your clients or the strategy of of the aggregates of the pools.

Uh yeah we deciding for uh range we we we calculating ticks and usually it's uh actual price and a few project and a few pros persons to up and down uh and uh it's uh also monitoring from our back end and if we'll see if that uh positions is out of range we just uh can trigger rebalance one more time and uh push position into this range

and it's related to the historic ticks

uh

the range.

Yeah, range range about ticks. So we reenter in position.

Yeah, but I mean how do you know the range? You do a historic simulation or how do you

No, we're just calculating it.

So it works uh the same way like revert finance works. Yeah,

it works the same way like revert finance works correctly. Yeah. where I can set up the range and I can set up also like uh correction of the range. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah, makes sense.

Uh and uh when we see that we are out of this range, uh we just trying to reset it one more time.

All right. All right. Cool. Then let's set up the the third talk. Who's the speaker?

Do you have a presentation or something? No, that's fine. then take the mic and [clears throat] uh it say the stage is yours.

Yeah. So hey everyone uh I'm Alexander web developer. So last hackathon I built a project on arbitum. It was a loyalty program for coffee like green coffee. If you go there you can buy coffee and get stamp.

So decided to do this one day and my friend said okay it can be. So when conference starts it was wondering because there was a lot of different side events and uh on [snorts] Friday my friends decided we need to drink a little a little bit of beer and Saturday when we start when we needed to start to do something they write me and said okay we are drunk we can help you anything. So it was terrible and and that day I decided okay somehow I needed to realize how to do it and implement basic implementation. So I started from firstly creating uh like client part from scratch but when I open boundary list I saw that they have scaffold Ethereum bounty and they have already predefined packages for client part for smart contracts and back end if I'm not mistake probably yeah so um and after that I decided okay maybe I can use And it was a little bit weird decision because somehow with their packages I got for the same wallet generated for different for the same uh private key I got two different addresses at the same time. Somehow I fix it.

I don't know how but it was wondering really. So okay somehow client was ready back end also back end was used only for generation OTP code like uh sixdigit codes that you you can provide it on client and that's all so after that we create a web app so we need to do to have some smart contracts have I ever made some some smart contracts yes on solidity and it was only like hello world um [snorts] whatever I don't remember coin flip and probably something simple and that's the that time I said okay I need to choose what chain it must be we have bass we have arbitum and if I don't mistake zerit so bass they wanted to make their app on bass app so my app my idea wasn't suitable to that zero create I haven't know that they have some account obstruction or something like that so I choose arbitum and also for my app used civic authentification [snorts] they have account abstraction which is really helpful but they don't have like settings uh you cannot I don't say provide parameters to your contract like you cannot set who will be payable for each transaction and I need to do it by myself. It was [snorts] a little bit hard I would say because web three dev not always have tokens on if your mainet and fet needed it and I asked my friend hey you can send me something. He sent me like five in five USDC on arbitum and somehow I found how on cipole and somehow I found how they can be [snorts] swapped in some decks on on dnet. It was really weird.

So this only all amount of what I have is was like 0.00001 ethereum on RP2. So [snorts] right after that I decide okay so I need to write some smart contracts write it in solidity and after I reading against one more time bounty list I found that they have steelus it's [snorts] on rust I don't know rust I have never ever write each even one line of rust I open some examples I see that terrible codes terrible syntax and thought [snorts] wonderful full. So right after that I think okay arbitum is EVM compatible so they support if solidity must be and right I don't remember the person who was presenting a ritual on hackathon writing to him and say hey I don't know rust can I write something on solidity and it can be and he said yes it can be so yeah that's how that's how I do it on solicity when everyone do it on rust. So yeah and it was two I would say even three challenges for me to building this app.

My friends drunk they don't help me. I don't have any support from my teammates. Somehow needed to find tokens which must exist on fet but I don't have ex access to faucet because I don't have ethereum on mainet [snorts] and the third part it was like rust and I don't know rust. So if everyone everybody want to build something on arbitum be ready that you needed to somehow find tokens for if you mainet to get tokens on sepoleia or if I don't mistake they also support some files that supports world coin authentification so if you have worldcoin app so you can connect it and get some tokens but I also haven't and u also be ready that you needed to write something on rust And that's all.

The biggest question is was it fun for you this hackathon?

Really hard. Really fun.

Yeah.

That's the most important part of uh joining a hackathon. If it's fun, it's already a win. Did you win something?

On Saturday evening, you can see my funny smile. [laughter]

Exactly. Did you win something?

No.

That's okay.

Sleep.

Okay. Next time. Next time. uh it it will be more fun and hopefully more successful. Any questions to this uh wonderful story of a hacker from a hackathon?

No, I see you guys want to go to to get the pizza and that's also a nice nice thing. If you want to know more [clears throat] and talk to Alexander, then feel free to do it whenever. And I'd like to thank you for this for participation in this arbitral meetup. Uh we'll have more meetups uh soon and just uh have fun. Thank you.

[applause]